Ep 18: From Charge Nurse to Business Owner – Conversation with Hemmen Jutla

Posted May 30, 2023

Show Notes —

Livaware is an innovative nurse-led team that fills the gaps in people’s healthcare. They combine clinical excellence, coordination, and empathy to provide an unrivaled experience led by Hemmen Jutla, RN.

In this episode, Nathan Illman talks with Hemmen as he talks about his inspiring journey of breaking away from his traditional nurse role to starting up his own company and becoming an entrepreneur.

Listen and learn in this episode.



  • Helping people with personal care and helping people who can not do certain things was incredibly humbling for Hemmen.
  • Understanding that people have their own lives within that: seeing patients as people, but seeing nurses as people as well, and who have their kind of problems going on and trying to manage that.
  • It is compelling when a leader says they do not have all the answers and directs us to people where to get the answers or solve the problem together.
  • Entrepreneurship is not just a business; it is a mindset.
  • It is where people can come to get ideas and help ideas. Just planting the seed, people will come out with great things.
  • Listening to your team, understanding their needs, and being aware of them having burnout is what Hemmen does as a leader to ensure their well-being is enhanced. 
  • Having many more nurses taking responsibility for their practice helps people individualize their healthcare, but also individualized profession.
  • It would be nice to bring an opportunity where people can work privately and use their skills.
  • Hemmen see stress as a hormone within us for a reason. 
  • Accepting that it will never be perfect and that it is an ongoing process that you will learn next time is important to ground yourself in that with the whole thing’s journey.


Today’s Guest:

Hemmen Jutla is the founding clinician of Livaware. He graduated as a nurse in 2013, has become a qualified health coach, and has worked in the most prestigious hospitals across London. He aims to provide the best care in the best environment for individuals, enhancing their experience on the road to recovery. 

Connect with Hemmen Jutla here:




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Transcript —

Nathan Illman 00:00

Welcome back, everyone. It’s Nathan here, founder of Nurse Wellbeing Mission, and your host for the podcast. It’s nice and sunny now in the UK and I’ve just come back from a holiday, so I’m feeling very, very refreshed as I bring you this episode. So are you a nurse or midwife who has a grand idea in your mind, perhaps something that you think might shake up the world of healthcare, improve things in a dramatic way? But you’ve got self-doubt or some other barriers that are stopping you from breaking away from what you’re doing right now to live that dream. Well, I think there’s probably a lot of people out there who are like this and. They’re kind of stuck in a traditional career mold within the nursing or midwifery profession. We’re in today’s episode, I’m interviewing Helen Jutlan, who is another inspirational person who had a grand idea and he left his traditional nursing role despite reaching career success relatively early on as a young person. And left to start up his own company and become an entrepreneur. And he is someone who I really respect for what he’s done and for what he’s attempting to do within the world of healthcare. And I think that his story will be inspiring for many people. And I think the reason this is important for well-being is personal growth. Is such an important area of our well-being and many people get stuck in a particular career path and they don’t really grow. They kind of stagnate a little bit. They may get career progression and promotions, but they’re not really doing what you might consider their calling. And Heman is someone who really broke away. To do what he believes is his calling, and it really is inspiring listening to his story. So I’ll let him tell you all about his journey himself. Quick few bits of housekeeping before I do that. If you don’t already follow me on Instagram, you can do so at Under School Nurse Wellbeing Mission, if you’d like to get. More free well-being resources and tips and tricks from me. Feel free to head over to our free Facebook group. It’s Nurse and Midwife Wellbeing Mission, and you can also follow me on Twitter. It’s at Nurse Wellbeing. Final thing that is, I guess, really important and exciting to announce is recently I ran a free online masterclass for nurses and midwives. It was called Calm in the Storm, and it was amazing. I. Basically delivered. What I consider the condensed version of the past 10 years or so of my own personal journey of learning to work constructively with stress and improving how we respond to stress. And this is my own personal journey and also work that I do with clients and I condense that down and have provided a really. Helpful masterclass for nurses and midwives. So if you wanna check that out, you can register for that on our website, www.nursewellbeingmission.com, and you’ll find it on there. Go ahead, take a look, and especially if you’re someone who feels that they don’t really deal that well with stress, it’ll be super helpful for you. Anyway. So without much further ado, I bring you today’s guest, Hemmen Jutla. Hemmen, thanks so much for joining me on Nurse Wellbeing Mission Podcast. It’s great to talk to you again. How are you doing?


Hemmen Jutla 03:37

Thanks for having me. Uh, I’m alright, thanks. Busy as ever. New Year kind of always kicks off something and Christmas is always the busiest time for business, so, uh, but I’m not too bad. Sunshine, as you can see, it’s nice.


Nathan Illman 03:49

Yes. As we were just saying, you were nice and sun-drenched in that February Sun. Yeah.


Hemmen Jutla 03:55

Joy way you have it, right?


Nathan Illman 03:56

Yeah, absolutely. So I was really looking forward to this conversation. I think you’ve got a really interesting background and sort of where you’ve come to now with your career. But for listeners, why don’t you just fill us in on your journey where you’ve come from. Why you went into nursing, to begin with and some of the roles that you, worked in, and what led you to where you are now?


Hemmen Jutla 04:20  

So starting off, why did I get into nursing? I’m not really sure. It’s quite a weird one. Like I wasn’t overly that typical, stereotypical story of like, I was so caring and then it led me into the profession. It was just my calling on what to do. I think it more. Founded me rather than, and my, I found it, um, which was an amazing experience actually. I did a four-year master’s and that almost set the tone of what nursing would be, cuz you kind of have to do all the credits needed for a master’s degree, but also then 2,500 hours of clinical practice. Embedded within that four years. So it was incredibly arduous. Definitely. And again, that set the tone of work ethic of how kind of nursing I thought would be, which is quite cool. Um, but along that period, learning how to care and I think foundationally learning about it from foundations of care, I mean, the first year of nursing is about that. And it’s little things of helping people with personal care and helping people who can’t do certain things and that. Was incredibly humbling, obviously. Um, I studied in Nottingham and I visited a number of places which I’d never experienced before, and all different walks of life and different homes, and um, and that gave me like an amazing experience about. Broadness and the kind of scope of what nursing can span, and that kind of just drove me into wanting to do better. I mean, I didn’t really do amazing at school. Like I didn’t work really hard. I was one of those kids that kind of messed around, but I think probably found myself at university a bit as, as they say, and then kind of left and then went into work to bad work, work, working world. Right? So, I had tried a few places, um, and I did some like agency shifts and, um, NHA, some private, and then settled a job actually in the private sector, uh, quite early on in my career, which is not the typical route, I think. But what I think, what it did allow me to do, which I saw at the time, but also looking back now, is individualize my learning. So I really then could learn and understand what I didn’t know and then go to kind of fill those gaps. But understanding healthcare as a holistic thing rather than just the task of nursing. Um, and I think that’s definitely what being at university did as well, and definitely doing a master’s degree kind of get that critical thinking of to analyze processes and systems and see, okay, well how can the. Been better. So I was never one for the, oh, it’s always been done that way, or, okay, that’s gonna take too long to change the process. It was like, well, is it, is it really? So I definitely went in with that mindset. I made it the charge nurse within kind of. Three years, three and a half years, which was great. It was definitely an honor to be in a navy blue, which was definitely a kind of, I dunno, a kind of visionary moment that you kind of wanna get to one of those pinch me moments, especially university cause you have different grades of blue depending on what grade you are. So getting to that was amazing. And then I stayed there for a couple of years and worked for a different kind, uh, different units from day surgery to medical surgical and then an outpatient center as well. So definitely got an experience for it. And then I left and now, and then I started my own company. Uh, so we can merge talk about now or talk about a bit in a bit. That kind of my journey. So I’ve been nursing now for 2000, so 10 years. Amazing. It’s been quite a bit, but not also done a lot yet. Cause I understand my careers, but so long to go.


Nathan Illman 07:54

Well, it’s incredible that you’ve broken away and, and started your own thing and yeah, let’s come back to that in a little while. We’ll definitely delve into it. Something I’m curious to know about is you mentioned about you’re someone who likes to improve systems and processes and I, that’s something that’s been the same with me in, in different settings that I’ve worked in within healthcare. And I guess I’m interested to know what your experience was in some of those previous roles you had of perhaps how ineffective or maybe burdensome systems and processes impacted wellbeing of you, you or your colleagues. Like were there things that created unnecessary stress and was that something that you were looking to improve upon? Or was it more focused on patient outcomes, for example?


Hemmen Jutla 08:41

Uh, I think it’s a cycle, right? A healthcare in essence is a person-delivered service. So it’s you focus just on the patient. It’s like a want the best outcomes to the patient. What do you look back to? It has to be the people caring for them, right? So you kind of start seeing that and take care. You take care of them. They’ll take care of them. I think that’s really. Important thing, which I think is overseen obviously by, by politicians, and the way the healthcare system is probably structured doesn’t kind of account for that. And getting the different experiences of different people. So you’re bringing a melting pot of people who are working in a very pressurized environment to achieve quite high outcomes, which are probably the highest outcomes because it’s like, well, with people’s lives, like it’s not a, it is. When people say in a saying, it’s like, well, it’s not people’s lives, isn’t it? We’re not make, well, it is. And so I think that’s such an important understanding, which can be overlooked so much. And I think people understanding that people have their own lives within that. So seeing patients as people, but seeing nurses as people as well, and who have their own kind of problems going on and trying to manage that, I think on a daily basis is quite difficult in some ways, but it’s also incredibly rewarding, I think, as a team when you come together. Uh, but probably one of the first things I saw. In nursing and that’s such, a kind of beautiful thing.


Nathan Illman 10:06

And when you were a charge nurse in your previous role, you made it to that position. You were obviously responsible for a number of other junior staff, I imagine. What did you do as, a leader in that organization to take care of your staff and thinking about their wellbeing? Was it specific? Conversations you had, ways you would support them? What was your sort of general approach?


Hemmen Jutla 10:32

I think quite a young charge nurse. Mm-hmm. I couldn’t really fall back on experience as much. I think where my confidence was was probably in my competence as a nurse and where I worked, we kind of had a turnover of staff or agency staff, so it kind of really helped me along that my clinical competence was there for them. So at that stage of my career, I was there to be able to teach clinical start tasks and teach junior staff on recognizing de deteriorating patients and all that. Cause, especially in private healthcare, it’s very different because on  NHS, you have a junior doctor kind of on the ward all the time, and you have this kind of level of hierarchy where it’s private healthcare, it’s consultant-delivered care, and you have one doctor for the whole hospital. Is covering, but actually it’s just nurse nurses. So your role kind of span into junior doctor level, f1, F two level in terms of, okay, the consultant can’t come until six o’clock and the patient’s on, well, at one we should probably do blood tests, so they’re back for six o’clock rather than wait, and then it kind of ca carries on. So making those clinical decisions, but probably my early, early days, the way that I supported staff the most and knowing what I didn’t know. Always knowing that there’s someone above me that I could ask or points on in the right directions. Actually, I learned that, or you need to speak to this person about this and putting your hands up. So, I dunno, I think is like knowing your limits in some way.


Nathan Illman 12:02

So important, isn’t it? Yeah. To put our hands up sometimes, and I think it’s incredibly powerful for people who are working with us when a leader actually says that, you know, I don’t actually have all the answers, but perhaps you can direct people to where to get them from or problem solve something together. We’re talking about your, uh, your, your previous work as a charge nurse and, uh, some of the, the things that you would do as a leader thinking about wellbeing. Now you’ve moved into this really exciting new position as an entrepreneur and, uh, and leading a team of people in a kind of slightly different capacity. So let’s just. So tell us a bit more about what you’re doing now.


Hemmen Jutla 12:42

So now after leaving kind of private healthcare, after seeing that little patients deserve better, um, there’s so many gaps in people’s healthcare who they just don’t know their way to navigate. Actual kind of system and blown between NHS and private and getting lost somewhere in between. So I, when I left, I started a CQC registered private district nursing and health concierge service, and that we provide, Community services privately to patient going from blood tests to i b, antibiotics, long-term wound dressings, and then also end-of-life care. So what we’ve done and what I’ve done is almost blended traditional models of care and delivery from around the world actually, and see quite what kind of works. And built a, an agile dynamic integrated care team, um, which is nurse-led, uh, which then. Can care for patients, but also then fill the gaps in healthcare if it’s m hs or private, to enhance the experience as an overall thing. Um, and seeing healthcare as an experience rather than just a. A task-based service. So that’s what I’m doing now. So I’ve run a team of five, which is great patients all over London and growing, which is fantastic, providing so many different ranges, um, and seeing what people need out there from hospitals to GP referrals or just word of mouth, especially during covid. Um, it was validated that people needed blood tests at home. The ones that were shielding or just didn’t wanna go out, care needed to continue and. We were definitely a place to do that, which is great.


Nathan Illman 14:26

It really sounds like you are filling an important gap in healthcare and it’s, it’s really impressive what you’ve already established. Something that I’m curious to know about is you’ve taken, I suppose, a quite a different route to traditional nursing or the traditional nursing career by breaking away and doing your own thing. And of course there, there are many sort of nurse entrepreneurs out there doing. Things differently to try and break through and, and drive innovation. Uh, I’m really, I’m really curious to know your thoughts about, well, what was different about you? What made you take that leap, do you think? And do you think other nurses are perhaps not given opportunities to think outside the box or it’s just kind of not really a standard thing to do for nurses to, to innovate in that way?


Hemmen Jutla 15:16

I think. Entrepreneurship. It’s not just about business, it’s probably a mindset. Mm-hmm. And one that can be trained. But if you’re more immersed in it, you just see it, um, in some way. And that, yeah, it may relate to business. And you might walk down the street and see something and be like, oh, that would be like, like it could work like this. And it’s about a process and matching things together and how it would all come together. And nurses do that incredibly well for patients. On a very micro scale. So it’s, it’s, I think it’s understanding that there are transferrable skills there and there’s so many different kind of career paths that you could go into. I think that could expand it. I mean, my first entry into it were, was at university. I had loads of friends who were doing business courses, who I lived with and all that. And I didn’t really live with nurses. Um, but I did one module. At university on, uh, nursing and entrepreneurship, which was done by Stacey Johnson, bigger up, which was amazing. And she’s was my personal shooter. And that probably gave me the bug that it can be done slightly differently. And if you’ve got an idea, especially with your nurse, you’ve got two ways to kind of wonder with it. You go to your. Hierarchy of hospital and they try and work through the process and try and get that done. Or you build a business and build a product out of it potentially. And that’s product, that’s things that nurses could use or something like that, which are different. So services are a bit different. But I think at that point I started seeing nursing and healthcare in a different way. Uh, I saw it for what it is that it does cost money and the way that you can cross cut and processes and that match to people and the way that people provide care and they’re educated then is gonna pass over to patients and then the bottom line of healthcare kind of invoice. So I think, I was very lucky to have that course and I don’t think that how much it’s taught through nursing. I don’t actually know if it’s a modular at all in other nursing courses, and I think starts from there. Definitely, I think it’s places where people can come to kind of get ideas and help ideas, right? Because that’s one of the difficulty and challenges on my path is there wasn’t a lot of nurse entrepreneurs that I could look to that had that understanding of business and nursing and want, trying to bring that together. In a way. So I think more role models, we’d love to try and be at some point, uh, and help nurses along that journey. Um, but I think it’s through education, whether that stop you at university or that be a CPD accredited module where nurses can come to and learn about it and then see if that changes the way that they think. Seem the way that it perceived healthcare, um, and let it grow from there. I think just planting the seed, people will come out with great things.


Nathan Illman 17:50

It’s fascinating. I didn’t realize that you actually had a module on it, and that’s, that’s where some of this actually started. That’s such an amazing provision, isn’t it, from, the university to have that. Yeah. You said it’s, it’s a formal space in which to reflect on things, to learn a bit more about someone else’s journey and stimulate some creativity.


Hemmen Jutla 18:10

Yeah, definitely. It’s definitely outside of the box of what healthcare sometimes can be, and I think seeing it from a different perspective sometimes, I think it definitely helps


Nathan Illman 18:21

For sure as your business grows and you work towards your vision, which you’ve shared with me before, which is really inspiring. What will you do as a leader to ensure your team, the people that work with you or for you, uh, what will you do to ensure that they’re getting the most out of work and, and their wellbeing is, is enhanced or sort of optimized?


Hemmen Jutla 18:49

Listen to them. I think that everyone is different after the cornerstone of the business is personalizing healthcare. So if we’re gonna do it there, we have to do it with our team as well. It doesn’t make any sense. And I think understanding people’s needs and do they have families or are they young and just kind of started working and they wanna do as many hours as possible, so you need to be aware of them having burnout or working too many hours in the week. Cause they’ve got a full-time job. So I think there’s a number of different things that we. Are out there now, um, in ways of employee assistance programs and wellbeing events and companies are yours as well. Definitely. That, which I think is amazing because it focuses on the hardships that nurses go through as a profession. I mean nurses are the largest employee, professional, pretty much any healthcare system in the world. So it is right that they have a focus on their well-being. Again, it’s that cycle that I spoke of, right? You care for the carers, they’ll care for you. Um, and I think understanding that a lot more, I think it’s easy to say we’re my team’s more as if we go to a team of a hundred nurses, I think they’ll be a little bit more difficult. But I hope that the foundations won’t change of personalizing it for them. What do you need? You tell us what you need and we can accommodate where we can. And I think nurses are so good at that, but not abusing it. And anyway, which I think has been done before, abuse nurses, goodwill. I think definitely not doing that. Oh, do you mind? Or make them feel guilty? Well, this patient really needs you. Uh, it’s probably not the way to do things.


Nathan Illman 20:23

Yeah, it’s quite manipulative in a way, isn’t it? It’s, uh, yeah. Making you feel, feel guilty.


Hemmen Jutla 20:29

Yeah. Have you had, which happens on the wards as well. I can imagine. Still, it’s like, ah, gonna be like two nurses down that you’ve gotta be here. I’ve just worked three days, like that kind of balance and understanding it is the understanding right back and forth between employee and employee. It’s person-to-person. It’s all what it comes, comes down to.


Nathan Illman 20:48

I love that individualized approach and it’s so important because I think. Within organizations, obviously, there’s been post covid, there’s been a lot more focus on wellbeing in response, I say in response, but it’s more reacting to what’s happened with Covid, right? And this sort of increase in stress and mental health difficulties with nurses and other healthcare staff. And I think one of the criticisms people often have, I sort of hear nurses saying this, is that. The organization’s approach to well-being is, is not very individualized. And of course, like in a huge NHS trust or big place, it’s, it’s difficult to speak to every single nurse individually, but you can do it in a smaller group and within a team or something to actually get feedback on what people need. Rather than just saying, Hey, we’ve got all this stuff. You know, go and find the things that you need it. It’s not really addressing people’s needs then, is it?


Hemmen Jutla 21:47

No. It’s just kind of putting stuff out there and it’s saying, go find your own way. Yeah. Um, and I think this is where a podcast is so important. I think that’s where they have such a positive effect on when the reach that they have is that when you hear and be like, oh, I’m not alone. And I think that’s such a powerful thing that even if there were more groups set up for well-being and stressed, stuff like that, within hospitals, there could be a safe place for people to come and say, okay, I feel stressed. Okay, what’s going on? And then you have a nurse that you’ve never met before who works on Ward 50 and you are on Ward five, and it’s like, oh yeah, we have, I go through a very similar thing. This is what I did to manage it. So then you start kind of sharing experiences and ideas around. I think that could be a very powerful thing. I think underpinned by technology in some way probably would be able to connect people together, but definitely more safe places. I think it’s to come. I mean, it’s, you always gotta look for the root cause, right? And if it’s a system that’s broken, it’s trying to, you’re trying to just plug holes wherever you can, which is very difficult.


Nathan Illman 22:50]

Definitely. Uh, I’ve got a question for you just about your. Perception of nursing and sort of reflecting on your experience of it and where you would ideally like to see things go. So you obviously have your own vision of what you are doing with liver ware. But based on your experience so far in the profession and your career, what would you like to see change within nursing? Perhaps whether it’s some more of these changes at the educational level or just general changes that are made within the profession, within hospitals, within organizations, within the structure of nursing.


Hemmen Jutla 23:27

I think there’s a respect there, but there’s also a slight emptiness to the respect that the progression gets. Mm-hmm. I think it is clap on a doorstep and that’s, oh, that’s great. But actually, when they’re telling you that they need more resource and they need more people, you turn a blind eye and it doesn’t really make sense in my eyes. And I think it’s. Putting them more in the conversation, which I think unfortunately, which is kind of pushed to the strikes we’re doing, um, and bringing it to the forefront of the conversation of how much they hold healthcare and the glue that kinda binds everything together. So I’d like to definitely see them maintain and be at the top table of more innovation. Definitely. Um, I’ve heard of cases of health tech companies where they wanna change workforce management and they don’t even have a nurse on their board. Of executives and you’re like, where’s the site to that? It doesn’t really kind of make sense. And I think seeing the importance of nursing I think is a real, like, important thing to do. It’s where it’s gonna be seen in terms of making the decisions, but also breaking out and doing it on their own. Like I didn’t set up liver where to necessarily start a business. Like I wasn’t like, oh, I wanna start a business and all the fun things that come along with it. It was more I wanna nurse in the way that. I want a nurse and I’d be able to spend time in a way that I spend, we spend time with patients and provide services to patients at home in a different way that’s been done before. So I think it kind of comes back to the question about entrepreneurship, that if you have a lot more nurses that are taking responsibility for their own practice, then I think that helps people individualize their healthcare, but also then individualized profession because you’re like, well, I’ve been a vascular nurse for X amount of time, and I can. Put a cannula into a stone and still get blood out of it. So I was like, okay, cool. So why can’t we do something with that? Why is there not a profession that you can go into, or your hands are so silly, you could think about aesthetics or something like that For nurses, an understanding of what people want and where healthcare systems are more reactive, entering the space of using their knowledge and experience to proactively help people where they seek them out or where they don’t, where you can introduce them. And I. That’s what Liver Aware, I hope, hopefully, definitely doing, is bring a specialist and expert nurses to one place. It’s you come to live aware because you need a nurse consultant who’s been a nurse consultant for 30 years and orthopedics, they’re there for you. Well, oh, you’ve also got a cardiac issue. After that, we’ve also got a nurse consultant who’s the one that’s 30 years because they’ve hit their ceiling in the profession in the nhs, and unless they’re go into management, they just stay there. So now bringing an opportunity where people can work privately and use their skills would be a nice thing. Maybe not in such a like capitalist way, but I think there’s definitely scope. Therefore, nurses do better themselves, better the profession and better how the communities they serve.


Nathan Illman 26:26

Thanks so much for sharing. I really value all your perspectives, and something that really strikes me about you from this conversation and previous conversations we’ve had is how driven by your own values you are. You know, you’re talking about this idea of not just starting a business for its own sake. And clearly not being motivated just by money. It, it’s really about these things that you care about and, and that really comes through in the way you talk about, about things and I’m sure will inspire other people and the people that currently work for you as well.


Hemmen Jutla 26:54

Hope so.


Nathan Illman 26:55

Yeah. So, final question. I’m curious to know, so. You know, day-to-day you’re a busy guy, you are working hard and obviously, you know, it can be stressful with running a business and managing. Cause I know you do clinical work as well. Just tell us, tell the listeners, what do you do to have fun, to relax, just to manage that stress. Like what would you do, uh, to wind down, and do you have any kind of routine that you use to do that?


Hemmen Jutla 27:24

I had no routine. I think that’s probably the best thing about it, that if. I got out of my routine, it’d probably stress you more. So I kind of keep it fluid as much as possible. Again, I think early doors I tried to learn to manage the stress at the root cause of it. So manage the things that cause you to be stressed. Is it time pressure or is it work deadlines or is it something like that? And understanding what triggers you. Mm-hmm. Um, and. I then, I don’t wanna say stay away from them but staying on top of them. Definitely. And I think it, I’m in a very, I say fortunate position as a business owner now as I get to fire myself from as many jobs as possible. So the things that give me stress, I can start to find people who like doing that as a job. But what I do kind of, I also enjoy stress at times, uh, which is a weird thing, but I do see it as a hormone that’s there within us for a reason. And I think if you listen to your body, something stressing you, it’s probably got so important. And I think listening to yourself within that and trying to really work out how important is it to me? How stressful is it making me? Am I just being lazy? I think that’s why so many people get essays done just before deadline. Mm-hmm. Because that pressure does kind of evoke something within you and being able to be self-aware of that, articulate it, and then the next step is managing that. Right. I’m gonna put myself under a little bit of stress at this point because I know that’s going to probably give the best outcome for me in this way like you do at the gym like you do in sports. So bringing that kinda into a life area and. I think I try to practice stoicism in a way and kind of release stress where I can. It doesn’t always work. Um, yeah, it doesn’t always work, but it, you, you try, this is the thing, and I think it’s a, it’s an ongoing development. It’ll never, it’ll never be perfect, you know? It’s like a stress-free life. But then does anyone want a stress-free life? Completely. Sounds pretty boring to me, to be honest. And I think one thing that really changed my life with music, I think when I left work and I was building the business and getting CPC registration, I listened like 64,000 minutes of Spotify in under a year, um, which is a lot of time and understanding. Songs in a different way and how they’re put together and like time kind of within it, where a lot happens within a four or five-minute track. It kind of really gives you, again, a different perspective. Um, for me it did anyway. Um, and that’s definitely something that I enjoy is when I’m on the way to patients or having headphones in noise canceling on to know that you can hear anyone else. And just vibing. I think that’s such a, yeah, it’s such a great way to just spend bedtime sometimes. Yep. Um, so yeah, I’m, if you ever see me on the train, I’m probably that guy like bobbing along.


Nathan Illman 30:15

I was vibing earlier in the co-working space that I, work in as bobbing


Hemmen Jutla 30:21

That is infectious. Right. This thing, people will be like, oh yeah, love that. Lemme put something on. I love it.


Nathan Illman 30:26

I was a little bit self-conscious of the fact that I might have been distracting other people with my movement, cuz everyone else is just completely still and then


Hemmen Jutla 30:34

you can control yourself, not other people


Nathan Illman 30:39

by the way. Thank you so much for sharing that. There’s some really lovely, takeaways from what you were talking about with, with stress there and stuff that I, you know, really believe in myself and there’s actually some of the stuff that I, I teach other people with the work I do, but, you know, stress, actually, Is there to help us ultimately. And it’s really only when it’s being activated in a kind of chronic, diffuse way that it’s really problematic and, and we can all learn to harness it. And it sounds like you actually consciously do that and, and recognize its values so. That’s something


Hemmen Jutla 31:12

and try to do that. That’s the thing. Not always, but I think again, accepting that, that it’s never gonna be perfect and it’s an ongoing process that you learn next time, which yeah, is important I think, to really ground yourself in that with the whole thing’s journey.


Nathan Illman 31:24

Love it. Well, Hemmen, thank you so much for joining me on the podcast, and I just wish you the best of luck with what you’re doing. It’s amazing.


Hemmen Jutla 31:32

All right, great. Thank you so much for having me and I’m sure we’ll catch up again soon. Um, and same back to you as well that you are doing in terms the name itself and the trademark that you got on. The name is Great Nurse Wellbeing Mission, so that’s fantastic. Um, I think really gonna help a lot of people out there and I’m excited to see that journey as well.


Nathan Illman 31:48